In 1929 the Ukrainian Autocephalous Church was forced to proclaim its self-liquida¬tion which marked the period of the destruction of Ukrainian Orthodox churches in Ukraine, and then Stalin engineered the famine of 1932-33 in order to quote/unquote, ‘tie the bag’, and he succeeded.
He said that if he destroyed the politically aware segment of the peasant population in Ukraine which fought with Petliura, he would then have peace and quiet from the Ukrainians.
Senator DeCONCINI: Thank you very much, Ivan. I know you agreed to testify here today on the condition your name would not be recorded. Can you give us the reason for that? I’m not pressing you to give us your name. I understand that, but for the record, I would just like to know why you asked for that permission.
Mr. M.: I have a sister with the same last name as my own who served time in Siberia. She was not permitted to return to Ukraine, but was forced to live in the Bal¬tic states. In 1937, the people left, and they destroyed everyone, and if they find my name, they destroy her also.
Senator DeCONCINI: You’re concerned that your relative would be in danger.
Mr. M.: Danger for her.
Senator DeCONCINI: Commissioner, do you have any questions?
Ms. MAZURKEVICH: You said that in 1934 they took you to work on the Stalin line, and that there were a lot of young men between the ages of 18 and 21. Did they talk to you about the famine? Were they discussing what happened in Ukraine during ’32 and ’33?
Mr, M.: Nobody ever mentioned anything. These boys from 18 to 28, they didn’t give five years, ten years. At that time, no, it was as long as it takes to trust Russia. I was freed, because my back was injured. My chest, I have a piece of metal also, and I couldn’t work, and then I met from my luck a doctor with whose son I studied together in the concentration camp for Ukraine.
And then I asked him please help me, and he said, I would like to, and when I come, I said, God, I thank you.
Senator DeCONCINI: Commissioner?
Dr. KUROPAS: Yes, this terrible tragedy happened to you over 50 years ago. Have you since that time discussed this story or mentioned this story to anyone from the west, your American neighbors specifically? Have you ever talked to Americans about this? Have you shared these terrible things that happened to you with any of your American friends, and if so, what was their reaction?
Mr. M: I always to Americans explained and said you could be someday in same position. They talk about intelligentsia. They talk about cars, about jobs, about foot¬ball. They not interested.
Dr. KUROPAS: Do you get the feeling that maybe they don’t believe you?
Mr. M.: Maybe they don’t believe.
Dr. KUROPAS: Thank you.
Senator DeCONCINI: Commissioner?
Dr. WERES: You said that your father was a kulak and also you mentioned that he owned 10 hectares of land, one cow, one horse, so on. What was the practical defini-