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the Soviets that they resorted to the famine. They had tried so many other things, that they took this most horrible of all actions, because so many of the people had tried to
stand up against them.
Mr. KARAVANSKY: In the year 1922 the whole Ukraine and the peasantry in other republics, for instance in Turkistan, there was so much until 1924 and the Soviet power couldn’t subordinate them. But in 1929 until 1933, resistance was smashed, I
think.

Maybe I am wrong, because I don’t believe whole stories published in the Soviet Union, it happened maybe-it happens even now. I was in the camp and some people came-he killed a collective farmer chief and he came, it is all the time, it is very popular crime in the Soviet Union to kill the collective farm chief.

But it doesn’t mean that the whole peasantry resisted Soviet power, some people, because of some personal conflicts found something to kill this chief. But it doesn’t mean that there was resistance to the Soviets.

But it may be that some people do something, and there are stories about whole vil¬lages who resisted. But it was rare and not coordinated cases.
Congressman HERTEL: Because they had no opportunity of communication-Mr, KARAVANSKY: Yes, no communication.
Congressman HERTEL: From your testimony and others, the Commission is able to hear, and all of the information in Dr. Conquest’s summary that he presented today, we are able to see large-scale resistance to the extent of the Soviets not being able to break the will of the people, so they tried to break all of the people physically through the famine.
Mr. KARAVANSKY: Yes, because the majority of peasants don’t want to go to the collective farms at the beginning. And therefore, there were four years of such measures-they took measures and measures, and they would be arrested, exiled—they don’t want to go to the collective farm, it was their kind of resistance, they don’t want to go to collective farms.

Maybe in some places there were some weapon encounters, but they were not coor¬dinated.
Congressman HERTEL: Thank you.
Other questions from Commission members?
Ms. VOLKER: No question, but I find that being from Western Ukraine, that Eastern Ukrainians in the free world have been saying it right along that their tragedy started in 1929, and it culminated in 1933. And I think the majority of Ukrainians are cognizant of that, but not the world as such.
Congressman HERTEL: Other questions or comments from other members of the Commission?
(No response)

Well, I know that many of the members and senators are sorry that they couldn’t be here for a longer period because of all that is going on in the Congress, and the clos¬ing days. But it is so important for them to have this record, as it is for the entire country, and the world, as I said before.

We appreciate the courage and the pain that those of you who have come forward today have given to us by your testimony. And it just shows-the hearing today shows